New York, November '68.
Photo: Joel Brodsky
Interview:
It's a great pleasure to feature you on
our magazine! How are you?
I'm doing well. Thank you. It's a pleasure to be in your
magazine.
Joe and Barry first started as a duo and
played in so called 'Teach-in'. It was not until probably the third lineup
change that you joined them. It also featured Paul Armstrong, John Francis
Gunning, Bruce Barthol. This was around
December 1965. Later Paul and John were out and you brought Chicken Hirsh. But let's start at the
beginning. Tell us where did you grew up and what are some memories from your
childhood and early teen years? I know you were studying the piano and also
started playing guitar.
I was born and raised in Brooklyn, NY. I know that it's cool to be from Brooklyn
now, but back then, I just wanted to get out. I started taking piano lessons when I was 7, but I hated them. I really was attracted to music, but I didn't
like the fake classical that I was taught. And I never built up a repertoire, just learned that lesson and went on
to the next one. Boring. Then, when I was about 13, I discovered the
guitar. That began lifelong love affair. I couldn't not play. I would get home from High school around
3:30, go up to my room and play the guitar for 6 or 7 hours, do about 15
minutes of homework and go to bed. Every
Sunday I went to Washington Square Park and play Folk music with whoever was
there. And there were some great
players: Josh Rifkin, Winnie Winston,
Dave Van Ronk, Happy and Artie Traum, Paul Prestopino, Eric Weissberg; the list
goes on. Sometime in my early teens I
saw Meade Lux Lewis on TV and it just knocked me out. I said to myself that this is what I have
been looking for. But there was no one
to teach that music, so learned as much as I could from records. But the guitar was my love.
Were you in any bands before joining 'Country Joe & The Fish'?
My first band was called the Lane County
Bachelors and it was a Folk group in NY with Eric Nagler and Artie Traum. Lasted long enough for us to do, maybe, 3 or
4 gigs. A few other Folkie groups
followed.Then, in 1965, a girlfriend took me to see the Beatles movies. I had been avoiding the Beatles and Rock and
Roll in general. I just wanted to play
Folk music - Bluegrass, Old Timey, and Blues. But those movies changed my life. It just looked like so much fun. So, then and there, I decided that I would become a Rock star. I even told a bunch of people. Surprisingly, many of them still remind of
that. I moved to the San Francisco Bay
Area and started hanging out in the music scene. I joined a band called Blackburn and Snow for
a few months. That's where I met and
first played with Chicken Hirsh. It was
during this time that I met and became friends with many of the Bay Area
musicians. Jerry Garcia and Jorma
Kaukonen and many others. It was a very
wonderful scene. A creative moment that
has carried us to this day.
You were in a band from December 1965 to
January 1969. Tell me how did you guys met and what are some memories from "basement" sessions you had at the beginning of the band?
Berkeley, June '66, with first drummer John
Francis Gunning.
Photo: Paul Kagan
When I got to Berkeley, I started hanging
out in the music scene. There was a club
called the Jabberwock that was a gathering place. In the corner was an old, beat up piano that
I would sometimes bang on - I would play some Boogie-Woogie, or, maybe, St
Louis Blues. But I wasn't serious about
it. But Barry Melton liked the way I
played the piano and then Dylan came out with Highway 61 and Joe decided that
he wanted an organ in the band. Barry
said, "Well, David can play the organ," which was totally untrue. I actually never played organ. The only
organs I knew were the ones in church or the theatre and they were completely
intimidating. But, I wanted the
gig. I started out playing guitar
because I didn't have an organ, but the band bought me a Farfisa organ and I
started playing that. Of course, I had
no idea of what to do with it, so I started to steal my own guitar licks. I would get these reviews saying what a
unique style I had. The reality was that
I had no idea what I was doing. Of
course, eventually I did learn to play it. Back then, the band was Joe, Barry, myself, Bruce Barthol on bass, John
Francis Gunning on drums, Paul Armstrong on whatever. He used to play bass when Bruce played
harmonica, guitar sometimes, but mostly I remember his energy, jumping around
on stage playing the tambourine and singing harmonies.
Where were you living at the times? Was
it like 'Grateful Dead' did?
I'm not exactly sure about the way all this
went down, but I think that Bruce was living behind the Jabberwock in an
apartment. Barry moved in, then
Joe. Maybe Paul was there too. It was definitely not like the Dead or the
Airplane, but more separate. But, you
have to remember that this was a community that was evolving and we were all
together most of the time, anyway.
In 1966 you released first EP, that also
featured Paul Armstrong and John Francis Gunning. What do you remember
from it. It was actually out on label, that Joe founded called 'Rag Baby', right?
Joe had gone to NYC to see if he could join
the scene there and Barry went with him to try to keep him thinking about the
band. When they came back, ED Denson was
with them. He agreed to manage us if Joe
would commit to the band. Soon after
that, we were in the studio recording the second Rag Baby EP. The first was CJ & F as a jug band. I was not on that. When I joined, along with John Francis, the
band evolved into a Rock band. The
sessions went fairly smoothly, considering the fact that we had no idea what we
were doing.
It featured two of your signature songs 'Bass Strings' and 'Section 43'. Do you remember writing and arranging this songs
and what are they in your opinion about?
I did not write those songs. Joe wrote them. Joe wrote all the really good songs. Well, Bass Strings was a code for pot that
Barry and Bruce used when they were in LA together. Section 43 is more complicated. It is a beautiful piece of classical
complexity. Years after we recorded it,
we discovered that Section 43 is in the California penal code for drugs. Pretty amazing coincidence.
How did you got signed up by 'Vanguard
Records'?
Sam Charters, who I knew from the
Washington Square scene, was working for Vanguard and really liked Joe's songs
and the sound of the band. They had this
really great reputation as a Folk label, but apparently wanted to branch out
into the new Rock and Roll scene. I
don't know all the details, but I think it was one of the worst contracts ever
signed. You'll have to speak to Denson
or Joe to get the particulars.
In 1967 you released in my opinion the
ultimate psych album of all time, titled 'Electric Music for the Mind and
Body'. I would like to ask a few things about it. What are some of the
strongest memories from producing and recording it?
Thank you for the kind words. After we signed with Vanguard, we went into
the studio to record, but there were some issues. Sam didn't like John Francis's drumming - to
inconsistent and he had some issues with time. John Francis felt something, of course, because no one was being
particularly subtle. So, he came in complaining of a toothache. As the session got under way, Sam and Joe told him to play simpler. No,
simpler, until, finally, John Francis threw his sticks down and said something
to the effect that his principles were being compromised and stormed out. The next day the session was canceled and the
day after that, we hired Chicken to play drums. We went away for 3 days to a place called the Barn in Santa Cruz where
we used to play and rehearsed and rehearsed and played at night. When we got back to Berkeley, we were ready
to record and we finished it in 3 days.
What gear did you guys use?
I used a Farfisa organ and a Gibson ES-345
guitar. I ran both through Fender Twin
Reverb amps. You have to talk to the
other guys about their equipment.
At what studio was it recorded and how do
you remember recording sessions?
Sierra Sound Recording. It was where we recorded the electric EP and
the owner was able to buy some better gear because of it. I think we used an 8 track machine. I don't remember doing overdubs, but, we must
have.
What can you tell me about the cover
artwork?
Not really. Just some psychedelic photos of the band playing, with our head shots
stuck on. The photos were taken at the
Barn - that much I do remember.
Did you have any concept while writing
this and were this mostly Joe's and Barry's ideas or did you also write songs?
I'm probably going to get into trouble for
this... Joe was the driving force behind
the band. He wrote all the good
material. He wrote about 90% of it. He was the band leader, although, sometimes,
he didn't want to be. Barry was a band
member, like the rest of us. Country Joe
was Country Joe, but the Fish was the rest of us. The band that played at Monterey Pop was the
"classic" lineup and even though we didn't play the Woodstock
Festival, it is my opinion that when people remember CJ and F, it's the music
from the first 2 albums that they refer to.
There were two version of the LP and I
prefer the mono version. How about you?
Well, I've got to say that when I listen to
music, I listen to the music rather than the "sound." Of course, if the sound is so bad that it
impacts the music, that's not good. So,
that said, I really couldn't tell you the difference.
What kind of respond did you get when the album
came out? Did it sell good?
The response was phenomenal. The critics loved us. We sold pretty well, but no where near a gold
record. But we were on the map and started
touring extensively all over the place. The crowd reactions were always positive.
'I-Feel-Like-I'm-Fixin'-to-Die' was your next album, which had the
legendary anti war hit on it. What do you remember from recording this one?
Around this time you had some crossfire in the band and Joe quit the band for
awhile. But later he came back and you started recording 'Together', and Bruce was
replaced by Mary Ryan on bass. 'Together' was your last album, right?
Fixin' to Die was on the first EP. The band was an acoustic jug band. When we started recording it for the 2nd
Vanguard album, we were stuck as to what to do. We ran it around for several hours and took a break. I sat down at the piano in the studio and
started playing it a la Ragtime and Sam jumped up and said, "That's
it!" So that's how it evolved. But, because it was Country Joe and the Fish,
and there happened to be an electric calliope in the studio, well, you get the
idea. Recording the 2nd album was
painful. Joe was thinking more and more
about a solo career and felt that the band was holding him back. Bruce got fired in the summer of 1968 and
Mark Ryan came on board, but it was big mistake. He had a hard time distinguishing reality
from fantasy and didn't play very well. Then, just before we were scheduled to go to England for a tour, he got
sick, so, since Bruce was over there anyway, we added him to the lineup for the
tour. Together was the last album that
Bruce was on. I was on Here We Are
Again, although not on all the cuts. I
think Chicken was on it too.
May I ask what was the main reason for
your departure?
I felt that the music was becoming kind of
crass. And there were some personal
reasons, too, that I would rather not go into.
If we go back to 'Monterey Pop Festival' where you were filmed. It's one of my favourite scenes from the film. How do
you remember Monterey with so many amazing artists at one place. I think it's
actually artistically more important as 'Woodstock'.
Monterey Pop was and still is the best gig
I've ever played. It was magical and a
moment in history that no one can deny. It was designed by musicians and we were treated like royalty. There's so much to say about it, from Jimi
Hendrix and Janis Joplin to all the booths and hippies walking around, amazed
at seeing so many of us in one place. I
remember standing backstage, gabbing with a bunch of musicians when suddenly we
were all tapping our feet and just pulled to the front - it was Booker T and
the MG's getting ready to back Otis Redding. I remember sitting in our hotel room with a bunch of guys when suddenly
there's a pounding on the door and Al Kooper comes in saying how he's just
heard the best guitar player he'd ever heard - better than Bloomfield, better
than Clapton - Jimi Hendrix. Then
rushing out to the next room and, bang, bang, bang, to tell someone else. I remember Jimi going up to Owsley and
saying, "I can't get high," and Owsley giving him some acid. And a half hour later, the same thing. And, another half hour, again. There's so much more.
Photo: Paul Ryan
What happened next? I know you joined 'Blues Project' and recorded an album? Would you like to tell me about that?
After that you played with so many amazing artists. Please share a story or two
about playing with them.
I joined the Blues Project in 1971. The band was Danny Kalb on guitar, Roy
Blumenfeld on drums, Don Kretmar on bass and me on piano. Then, after a few months, Tommy Flanders
joined as vocalist. The band was HOT! But too crazy to move in one direction. I played with Mick Taylor. That was wonderful. What a great musician. Colin Allen played drums and Roger
"Jelly Roll" Troy played bass and sang. I played and recorded with Bill Perry. A real talent. He passed away a while ago and I miss
him. While I think about these bands, so
many stories come to mind. If it's OK
with you, I would like to take some time and write some for you.
You are still very active these days. Making albums, you also wrote a book about teaching the piano blues. Would you
like to share a few words about your solo career?
I have 3 CD's out. The first one solo piano is on Rag Baby
Records, Country Joe's label and it's called, David Bennett Cohen At the
Piano.
The second one is called In the
Pocket and it has a band on it. These
two are instrumental.
The third one is
Cookin' With Cohen and has a band, as well. Some vocals, but not by me. This
CD was in the running for a Grammy nomination. It didn't get the nomination, though. I have two instructional books/CD sets on Blues piano, one on Rock and
Roll piano, one Ragtime piano. I have a
4 DVD set on Blues piano and one on Hammond organ. These are all on Homespun Tapes. I've been with them since 1975. I currently play regularly in the NYC
area. I play with several bands, plus,
every now and then, I front my own band. I have several private piano and guitar students, plus a network of
students around the world from my instructional products. I'm having a ball. No matter what happens, I still get to play
the Blues...
If you look through your whole career are there any regrets?
Not really, but it's hard not to. There are definitely several "in
only's," but not real regrets. I'm
happy with the choices I've made, even if some of them haven't been the
best. I have been a member of the SGI
Buddhist organization for 27 years. We
chant Nam Myoho Renge Kyo and it has made a profound impact in my life.
I would like to thank you for taking
your time, David. I'm really happy we
talked about your rich carrier. Would you like to add anything, perhaps a
message to It's Psychedelic Baby readers?
The World is suffering. Music is healing. I think that there must be a formula there, somewhere. Thank you for the interview.
Cheers.
David
Interview made by Klemen Breznikar / 2012
© Copyright
http://psychedelicbaby.blogspot.com / 2012
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